One of the factors to consider in comparing the Horizon League to the Missouri Valley is the number of current NBA players from each conference. The Horizon has four-
1) Norris Cole (Cleveland State) who has put 18 points on the Bulls twice this week with the Heat.
2) Willie Green (Detroit) who is a nine year NBA vet.
3) Gordon Hayward (Butler) who averaged 14 points a game with the Jazz.
4) Shelvin Mack (Butler) who is a two year NBA player.

The Valley has two-
1) Kyle Korver (Creighton) who was a member of the Bulls bench mob two years ago.
2) Danny Granger , who is an All Star with the Pacers, actually graduated from New Mexico, but played two years at Bradley before transferring . I'll consider him coming out of the Valley.

When you also consider that the Horizon has had two Final Four appearances in the past 5 years, while the Valley has one, it seems to me that the Horizon was a well coached, underrated league. So facing tough completion will be nothing new for the Ramblers.

Interesting about the NBA players. I think it's clear that overall the level of play in the MVC is higher than in the Horizon, but it's not as dramatic as some (especially the MVC fans) think. Hopefully you and I are proven right.

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We will hold our own provided that we dont have the second half "break downs" that we saw last year resulting in so many last minute losses. Hopefully our young team matures and is better able to put games away with a lead. I am looking forward MVC play ... I think we will surprise some people. Go Ramblers!

Anthony Tolliver (Creighton) of the Atlanta Hawks has also been in the NBA a number of years.

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Don't think you are comparing apples and apples. Butler was in the A-10 this past year and is now in the Big East. They aren't a Horizon League team so I don't think you can count them.

Here's the current state of NBA basketball (in terms of college conferences)

http://i.imgur.com/KUEKyRi.jpg

By your theory (which I contend is not correct), the Sun Belt is better than the Horizon and MVC. The Colonial is better than both conferences. Even Conference USA is better than both. Are you really making that argument?

Take a look at the conference power ratings this past year. The MVC came in 8th and the HL in 12th. Here's the list:

http://i.imgur.com/4xbcZAw.jpg

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Moreover, the MVC was essentially tied with the A-10 at 7th, and a notch above the SEC (a league that had a down year). The MVC was 50-71 against Top 100 teams, while the HL was 8-27 against the Top 100.

I think it's clear the MVC will have a down year next season, with the loss of Creighton and many teams (ISUr, Drake, SIU) in rebuilding mode. But so will the HL-- with Detroit losing the two-time POTY and their second leading scorer; and Valpo losing six seniors (and five of their top six scorers). Green Bay looks to be good, but who knows what damage the coaching controversy will do? Wright State should be pretty good, too. But after that, all the other teams finished below .500 and lost a few players.

For those who haven't seen it, all it takes is one visit to Arch Madness to see the difference between the MVC and HL. The MVC practically takes over Downtown St. Louis. Thousands of fans converge. The bottom 4 teams play-in to a 3-day tournament on a neutral court, with the title game on CBS. It's nuts! When you see how well it's done, and what fun it is, the HL looks like a junior high school league.

I heard that LeCrone really misses you, JCT. He's making a pitch to be the new MVC commish and to get rid of that terrible Arch Madness. It's just not fair that the top team has to play games.

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