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 Post subject: 8 or 7 seed
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:22 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 1:32 pm
Posts: 200
LU is currently ranked #26 in the RPI. 26 divided by 4 regions is 7.5.

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-baske ... acketology
predicts LU either an 8 or next most likely a 7 seed.

The higher the seed the better, as the easier the 1st round is, the more strength for the 2nd round.


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 Post subject: Re: 8 or 7 seed
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:12 pm
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I sure hope so but everything I have seen says 12 seed


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 Post subject: Re: 8 or 7 seed
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:58 pm 
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10 years ago, yes (Drake was a 5-seed). Not these days with P6-littered selection committees.


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 Post subject: Re: 8 or 7 seed
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:02 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 04, 2013 11:58 am
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Location: Livin in the middle, between the two extremes
To get to the Sweet 16, I view an 11 or 12 seed as a better route. Win round 1 as an 11 or 12 (which history says is a very winnable game), you likely face off against a 3 or 4 seed in round 2. Win round 1 as an 8 seed, your reward is the #1 seed in round 2.


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 Post subject: Re: 8 or 7 seed
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:11 pm 
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Excuse my math (& I started out a math major before going to social science & the Law).

LU ranked #26 in the RPI. 26 divided by 4 regions is 6.5 (not 7.5).

In all fairness that would make us a 6 or 7 seed.

The site at the start of the message probably took into account that the football conferences run the seedings, thus predicting an 8 or maybe a 7 seed for us. The committee tends to protect the weaker teams from the big football conferences (giving one of them a win & their conferences money) by having them play against each other, rather than a sure loss against a good mid major (who they match against each other).


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 Post subject: Re: 8 or 7 seed
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:12 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:56 am
Posts: 3898
Location: Chicago, Illinois
No. We are not getting a 7 seed or an 8 seed or a 9 seed under any circumstances.

The RPI was created as a formula to justify selecting almost exclusively large conference teams to backfill NCAA Tournament fields once the conference auto bids were decided. They didn't want to use the AP poll or other measures made by unregulated outsiders, so they had to come up with a system that was ostensibly fair. However, the RPI formula made no provision for the difficulty of playing games on the road. Some of the better thinkers at the Power conference schools figured out they could simply never play a non-conference road game ever again. So they started buying home games from non-con opponents.

The system got entirely out of whack, because the weakness of mediocre teams from P5 conferences was masked due to never playing on the road. Schools like Syracuse were especially cagey about refusing to play on the road. That was one of the reasons for the proliferation of upsets by 12 seeds (who were usually excellent teams that could never rise higher because they had to play top schools on the power conference team's home floor) over 5 seeds. The 5 seeds were very often the teams who had some home "upset" wins over the teams with big names in big conferences that looked great on paper. So in 2005 or so, the NCAA added a healthy bonus to the RPI formula for a game that was won on the road.

Once the road game benefit was added to the RPI, some teams figured out how to finesse the RPI formula to get great numbers without actually beating excellent teams. The MVC was perfect for this technique, because they were large enough to attract home games from good quality teams, they worked on building their strength of schedule as a group, and they would play (and often beat) mid-level P5 teams. The MVC had multi-bids for nine years from 1999 to 2007, averaging 2.44 bids per year.

To counteract this, the committee started adding footnotes, caveats, and new benchmarks to their analysis-- top 100 and top 50 wins, predictive and efficiency numbers, and now, four quadrants. The predictive and efficiency metrics (KenPom, BPI, Sagarin, etc.) use formulas looking at stats like field goal percentage, strength of schedule, margin of victory, defensive efficiency, etc. to try and counteract for RPI manipulation or luck. Every year, they're inventing new metrics to have handy in case they need them, like "Tournament Quality Wins." Missouri State (RPI of 21 in 2006), Hofstra (30 in 2006), Air Force (30 in 2007), and Illinois State last year (33), but 11 teams from the Old Big East got into the tournament in 2011, 8 from the Big East in 2013, 7 from the Big 10 in 2013, etc. Now that there are more than 10 teams in all the power conferences, they're starting to take a lot more schools as at large bids who finished BELOW .500 in conference.

When it gets down to it, however, it's all a giant contraption that tries to justify injustices, cover over for greed, fear and selfishness, and let everyone who's bullied the little guy sleep better at night. Without the system, the big money schools can pay coaches millions, can't pay to not play mid-level teams who fulfilled their ends of bargains, and can't have a Rube Goldberg excuse to believe they're entitled to it all in perpetuity.

So that's why we're going to get a 12 most probably, or maybe an 11 if the powers that be are sufficiently amused by our plucky little team.


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 Post subject: Re: 8 or 7 seed
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:12 am 
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JCT comes with his usual accurate assessment. I will use my own POSITIVELY NEGATIVE opinion--We WILL be cheatrd as has haooened over and over again through the years !! WE SHALL get cheated AGAIN and be regulated to a 12 or worse--BOOK IT !! In any case however we will confound these pitiful excuses --My opinion only !! BUT our guys AREW good --Most everyone knows it--Watch us win some more trgardless


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 Post subject: Re: 8 or 7 seed
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:31 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:36 pm
Posts: 279
JCT is spot on again. I have been amazed when I look at all these “bubble” teams to see how many of them now have sub 500 conference records. Should be disgraceful to give teams like that an at large bid but no one seems to care this year. It just continues to get worse.
I hope we can at least get a 10/11 seed because it looks like that will put us closer to home. I’m hoping that by being one of the first auto bids the committee maybe spends a litttle bit of this week digging deeper into our resume, but probably not.


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 Post subject: Re: 8 or 7 seed
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:46 am 
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With the St. Mary (CA) loss last night there are only 6 teams now with better records than LU. All 6 are ranked in the top 8 in the polls: Virginia, Villanova, Xavier, Michigan State, Gonzaga, & Cincinnati. At least one more will be eliminated by selection time. Look for LU (conference & tournament winner) to do better than a 12 seed, maybe not a 6, but better than a 12.


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 Post subject: Re: 8 or 7 seed
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:23 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 7:32 am
Posts: 2301
Do not forget that the one thing that over rides all of the shenanigans...which is mid-majors defeating P5s never happens because they refuse to play us and do not get penalized. How long before Florida schedules us again ? Think they are coming to the Gentile for a rematch next year?
Cowards...I call you out!!!!!
Just for comparison...here is an article about UCLA and John Wooden and how he loved to come to the Chicago Stadium to toughen up his team.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1994 ... ation-ucla


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