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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:34 am 
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I agree with JC64 and LU86...
Seems to me that we Ramblermaniacs, the fans and alumni, the administration, and the student body need to be on board to develop the program as a significant piece of gaining University prominence. Everyone knows what PM turned down, and that needs to be rewarded with everyones support. PM indeed has put himself clearly in the best position for recruiting. His staffing choices should be tailored to specific needs and succession thoughts. Looks like the table is set, and I recall Clayton Custer saying he didn't want to go bak to the early days. Do We?
As to the Valley and one bid issues. I think there is a two edged sword here, as league wide plan to ramp up Valley rankings will also intensify competition to win it. Yet, that seems like the best option for where we are at this time. Like you guys, I would like to see a City wide round robin or such. Probably won't happen as NU, IL and likely DePaul would not give up their assumed status as P5 is schools..
Work and some good fortune is most needed. Success on the court will breed more.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:26 pm 
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Keeping coach long term is going to be tough but not impossible.
First, I applaud PM exploring his options. This is only natural as success attracts other schools. PM has established a brand identity merging several elements that are beyond just winning. Those are:
1. turning around a completely moribund program. If you examine the records of previous coaches post George Ireland, you have the following:

Jerry Lyne
record 72-74
post win total 19 once (19-10), worst 10-16
second best season 16-11

Gene Sullivan 9 seasons
record 149-114
two twenty win seasons back to back 20-9 and then 27-6, 20-9 was preceded by 19-10
worst season final season 11-17.
he did have four seasons in a row with a winning record and one NIT appearance and of course the NCAA sweet 16 appearance

Will Rey 5 seasons as follows which speaks for itself
7-22, 10-19, 13-16, 7-20 and 8-19
total 45-96

Ken Burmeister
four seasons
5-22, 8-19, 12-15 and 15-15
total 40-71

Larry Farmer
6 seasons
9-18, 14-14,7-21, 17-13, 15-16 and 9-20
total 71-102

Jim Whitesell
8 seasons
13-17, 19-11,21-11, 12-19,14-18,14-16,16-15
total 109-107

Porter Moser
8 seasons
7-23, 15-16, 10-22, 24-13, 15-17, 18-14, 32-6, 20-14
CBI champ, Final Four appearance and NIT bid
included change in leagues from Horizon to MVC

With the exception of Tom Haggery and his five seasons from 1945 -1950
with the following records
23-4, 20-9, 26-9, 25-6 and 17-13 for a 111-41 total, Porter has been the most successful Loyola coach post WWII.

George Ireland coached from 1951 through part of 1975 with a total record of 321-255 with the following results
17-8, 8-15,8-15, 13-11, 10-14, 14-10, 16-8, 11-13, 10-12, 15-8, 23-4, 29-2, 22-6, 11-14, 22-3, 14-9, 16-9, 9-14, 13-11, 4-20, 8-14, 8-15, 12-14
Ireland of course had 3 twenty win seasons all in a row and a national championship but 5 of his last six seasons were losing records including a 4-20 record and only 4 of his first 9 seasons were over 500.

2. Graduating players
3. Creating a brand identity with team GPA and the Created by Culture theme.
4. Understanding the PR aspect of coaching.
Porter is popular with the media, with alums, with the students and with the media.
These are attributes that have made PM a magnet for other schools.
Of course, winning is at the top of the list.

As for PM staying the following aspects are what is important and must be present for PM to stay or go.
1. money, lets face it St.Johns offered 2.2 million and compared to a salary of around $1 million the gap is significant.
Loyola must increase the salary to at least $1.5 million. This will be difficult but not impossible.
2. Security
This has always been important to PM; he was burned at ISU and had three ADs in four years. He saw how his mentor tony Barone was dumped in Texas,
he experienced the leadership void and lack of support when Grace Calhoun left in May and a new AD did not start until December. PM got his extension but SJ did offer eight years.
3. Facilities
The Joe is an adequate facility and the new practice facility is a big plus. It is not Madison Square Garden but St. Johns often plays at its on campus arena.
4. Athletic department support.
Here Loyola has an edge. Steve Watson is one of the best in the business. Unlike St. Johns where there was a divide between VP Oliva and the new AD Craig who wanted Cluess a former SJ player as coach Watson has a great relationship with PM (although their styles are very different) Watson has gone to bat for PM many times and that is important. As an fyi, the team now charters to its games. In addition key alums like Al Norville and Loyola board chairman Bob Parkinson a season ticket holder and former Baxter CEO the channels of communication are open. Dr. Joanne Rooney is also a tremendous asset as she is an active participant and understands how Loyola basketball is important to the school. The spike in enrollment and enthusiasm have been well noted. St; Johns right now is a mess with key alums calling on the President of SJ to resign and the for the firing of athletic department personnel. per NY Post
5. Scheduling and Conference
Clearly the MVC has been a boost to the program over the Horizon League. Here Grace Calhoun and Father Garanzini deserve a lot of credit for the change.
While the Big East may be one of the P5 conferences with multiple bids it would be a tough transition for LU to join the Big East. Butler, DePaul, Georgetown have all had transition issues and the competition is indeed stiff. The MVC may be at this time a one bid league and there is no immediate answer to that. P5 schools refuse to schedule with the mid majors. Personally I am surprised that the NCAA is allowed to get away with its selection process for the lucrative NCAA tournament.
The P5 schools get far too many bids to the tourney with the crumbs being distributed to the mid majors. The P5 schools also receive the lions share of the cash and to me there would appear to be a case for restraint of trade and anti trust issues. The mid major schools need to band together, make some noise and seek the NCAA field to be expanded to 96 teams and for their to be a cap on the number of bids each conference can receive.
If they pushed reform and made the right noise about restraint of trade, the NCAA would eventually yield. However, the status quo will remain until the mid majors stand up for themselves.
6. Culture
In the book "American Nations" the author outlines the attributes of the eleven different US cultures (such as Yankee, El Norte, Deep South, Applalacion,Left Coast, East Coast, Midwest etc
and lets just assay the Midwest is much different from the East Coast. The reaction to potentially selecting someone from "Naperville, Illinois" was generally hostile. Chris Mullins, former St.Johns and NBA legend, resigned after four years with two years left on his contract. There was general dissatisfaction with his body of work and the alums wanted a Pitino, would have settled for Hurley and even accepted a Cluess but did not want a Midwesterner. Ultimately Mike Anderson of Arkansas was hired this past week but the New York Post stated clearly that his lack of understanding of the East Coast could be a problem. I would think that culture was a big factor in PMs decision.

So what can be done:
1. increase the salary to PM as close to $2 million as possible. (put in a very stiff buy out clause as well that another school would have to assume.)
2. Security. Extend the contract to ten years;
3. Facilities The new practice facility is a big plus. Seek to have some games either at the UC as part of a doubleheader or continue to work on a city series tourney as suggested. Loyola has established pre season tourney tradition with trips to Vegas, Anchorage, Savannah, St. Thomas, Ft Myers and this year the Cayman Islands and the year after Atlantis. Those are positive events that support recruiting and every four years there has been an overseas trip. Archmadness is another plus. Eventually the Joe should be expanded to 8000 plus.
4. athletic Department support.
The creation of giving levels and the Excellence Fund and the Norville Challenge are all positive aspects. More should be done on corporate sponsorships which will eventually lead to a radio deal. Also more could be done to use the wall space in the corridors for advertising.
5. Scheduling and Culture have already been discussed.

I am confident that PM would prefer to stay in Chicago and become a bigger legend under the right circumstances. With the exception of the one bid conference issue, Loyola can take positive steps to sustain the success that PM has initiated. When you compare his record to those of most of his immediate predecessors, it is worth doing. I am also confident that the current regime, "gets it!"


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:38 pm 
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Streak's post, by my rough estimate, is four times longer than the Gettysburg Address. That has got to be a Ramblermania word count record. (Maybe ahunte could research this.)

I also suspect Streak has set the Ramblermania mark for the biggest number of higher up asses kissed in a single post. The list includes Porter Moser, Steve Watson, Grace Calhoun, Father Garanzini, Al Norville, Bob Parkinson and Joanne Rooney. (Did I miss anybody?)

Don't mean this as a criticism, just an interesting observation.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:53 pm 
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I would just like to propose a moratorium on the words "doubleheader" and "Chicago Stadium"

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:58 pm 
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're: Streaks post. One of the best posts ever on this site. Right up there with JCT calling for physical retaliation against dirty play by opposing players.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:12 pm 
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I agree! And the unredacted version of Streak's post was even better. The only problem was that the unredacted version took up so much bandwith Ramblermania kept crashing. Streak had to edit it down by reducing the size of his suck up list. Several Loyola trustees and administrators failed to make the final cut.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:28 pm 
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I agree with 25yearstreak, but would add one item to his list of facilities. Build another parking garage.
Also, he mentioned board chairman Bob Parkinson. Having someone like Bob supporting Loyola athletics is of utmost importance to getting the financing for desired improvements and compensation of staff needed for future success. He has demonstrated great executive ability as current chairman of the board of Northwestern Lake Forest Hospital, and retired president and COO of both Abbott Labs and Baxter. I do not think we have had such enthusiastic support for Loyola athletics from any previous board.

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Last edited by JC64 on Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:09 pm 
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Location: Chicago, Illinois
MikeH wrote:
're: Streaks post. One of the best posts ever on this site. Right up there with JCT calling for physical retaliation against dirty play by opposing players.


I stand by that post. We got pushed around and intimidated last year. By the end of the season, we were missing the few drives to the basket that we dared attempt.

Happy Easter.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:22 pm 
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I am mixed on this topic. O supported PM From the beginning.

We have Porter a second chance which not every coach gets. We stuck with him through three bad years I'm which many programs would have fired him.

Last year was a gift. One that should have set up both Loyola and Moser. Instead Moser used this to either get a better contract or leave. This was a critical time for the program. We needed to land someone to contribute last year and a transfer to ! minimize the loss of Custer and Townes this year.

By having one foot out the door we were unable to do this and now !just hope two JC players and freshmen can do it.

Now that PM has again put one foot out the door a second year, we will continue to not be able to get an elite prospect due to the fact he will always have one foot out the door.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:25 pm 
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jim wrote:
I am mixed on this topic. O supported PM From the beginning.

We have Porter a second chance which not every coach gets. We stuck with him through three bad years I'm which many programs would have fired him.

Last year was a gift. One that should have set up both Loyola and Moser. Instead Moser used this to either get a better contract or leave. This was a critical time for the program. We needed to land someone to contribute last year and a transfer to ! minimize the loss of Custer and Townes this year.

By having one foot out the door we were unable to do this and now !just hope two JC players and freshmen can do it.

Now that PM has again put one foot out the door a second year, we will continue to not be able to get an elite prospect due to the fact he will always have one foot out the door.


What elite prospect do you think we can get? We quite literally have the best recruiting class ever at Loyola this year. Also, I don’t think Porter has one foot out the door. He was assessing his options and trying to Figure out what he is worth to other programs.


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