She was my second favorite

I hate to keep this thread going. The loss was especially frustrating. I do believe in Porter, think he's a great guy and good person to be leading the program especially given the rest of the college basketball landscape, and would be more than content if he were to spend the rest of his contract here building us into Gonzaga of the midwest.

However, I do have a hypothetical: would Loyola be better off if Porter jumped ship to a P5 school in March? We would hire a new coach for probably half Porter's salary, which would free up around $500k (not to mention cashing in on a big buyout) to spend on assistants, recruiting and travel budget, etc.

I still don't think Porter is the end-all, be-all kind of coach that we bend over backwards to keep. Obviously the Final Four was a big windfall, and I for one do not begrudge Porter for wanting as big of a cut from that as possible. However, economically, we probably overpay Porter given that we play in a 4,500 seat arena that we don't fill regularly and basically give away 4 sections worth of tickets to the students for free.

The obvious downside to this is there's probably a higher chance the program starts to atrophy under the new coach than under Porter. Think of the post Gene Sullivan era: the obvious lesson to be learned from that is things can get pretty dark quickly and stay dark for a long time.

Just curious to hear the board's two cents though.

You asked for two cents,, Ill give you a dollars worth.
We are all over the place with our expectations here. Coaches look good when the players make plays.
Last night Ind St. lost after kicking our ass. So should Greg Lansing, a great coach on Wednesday, get fired on Sunday?
If our players made a better percentage of free throws, we'd have a few more wins. SIU is hot, but does that make Bryan Mullen a GREAT coach? It's the players making shots when needed, OR, like us, missing shots when we should have made them. SIU's cumulative Ke Pom statistics aren't that great.
Is Ben Jacobsen a GREAT coach because AJ Green had 30+ points last game against Drake?
All LUC needs is to have the players make some shots, consistently. Here's where I go to bat for PM. He has to see the same things we do, be frustrated as we are, yet get up every day and support these guys,, work with a balance of criticism and encouragement. He is as good as anyone I've seen at LUC in this regard.
I'm for stability over constant change at the top. We are a young team and show that in our inconsistency, and in our sometimes obvious indecisiveness on offense. Krutwig, the best assist big guy EVER ,should be racking up huge totals if the other shooters shoot. Defense is the best and most intense in the league. That's my dollars worth. Go Ramblers, one game at a time......Oh,just please knock down those free throws.
Also, what successful organization makes it big by budget cutting at the top? Ridiculous idea.

I'm kind of wondering if the poster is really Sister Jean. We may find out during the pregame prayer today!

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MBB Scholarship Chart

There are two ways for a mid-major to be relevant. They either become the place to coach because they lead to a better job, e.g., Butler, Xavier, VCU or they have an identifiable coach at the top, e.g., Mark Few, Tom Brennan and Phil Martelli (the last two -retired - there aren't many left). A winning coach attracts donors, players and good assistants. These are the life blood of relevant mid-major schools. It is hard to remain relevant. In my opinion, the only school that is a relevant mid-major currently in the MVC is UNI because of Jacobson. We are on the verge of it. Porter Moser is the only coach in the MVC that has a national reputation. He has made progress with a program that was all but dead. There is more work to do. I don't see him stepping back or riding his laurels. I think he wants to be one of those guys who is know for winning. I think he sees the MVC as a place where he can compete for titles each and every year.

This thread will sure look funny when we knock off UNI on Sunday at Arch Madness and make our triumphant return to the Dance!

I’m going to be BRUTALLY HONEST. I understand others’ opinions and frustrations, but I think some things need to be pointed out.

1) Porter Moser Inherited a Complete Crap Program

In 2013 when Moser was hired, Loyola had not been to ANY postseason tournament since 1985 (28 years). 5 other Loyola coaches had a chance to get us back to a tournament in that span and all five failed. In those 28 seasons, only 5 times did we have a record above .500. 23 seasons of losing – for nearly a quarter of a century, we were overall losers.

Brutally Honest – Loyola was a terrible job in 2011 (and basically ever since 1990). Nobody decent would have wanted the job.

2) Porter Moser Inherited Virtually No Talent in 2011 and Started with Nothing

Porter’s first year at Loyola in the Horizon League was a terrible way to start. There was no Valley level talent on the roster, and probably only two decent Horizon league level talents in Ben Avercamp and Walt Gibler.

The roster Porter got for his first year was:

Jonathon Gac
Gabe Kindred
Denzil Brito
Chim Kadima
Ben Avercamp
Shaun Adams
Jordan Hicks
Courtney Stanley
Walt Gibler

Brutally Honest – Nobody could do well with what we had after Whitesell.

3) Porter Moser was Sent into The Valley with Horizon League Talent

After only two years in the Horizon League, without a full four years to get 4 full classes of his own players to compete, Porter got charged with the task of taking only 2 years of his recruits (which he could only get Horizon League talent) to a vastly more competitive Missouri Valley Conference. First he was forced to take beatdowns in the Horizon with Whitesell’s Division II recruiting talent, then he was forced to take beatdowns in the Valley with Horizon League recruiting talent (and only 2 of his own classes at that!). In short, Porter had the reset button hit on him when he got to Loyola, then two short years later (in terms of allowing him to recruit and plan), he had the reset button hit on him again when we moved up in conference. Some coaches screw-the-pooch when they inherit “decent” situations… Porter never was given anything easy in his first four years.

Brutally Honest – Almost nobody could succeed in making the Horizon League to MVC jump with Loyola. The consensus from almost everyone was that we were a terrible choice to join the MVC. Nobody wanted us there – and the criticism was justified.

4) Porter Moser Recruited Top Talent for Loyola After Only His Second Year And Saved the Program

Porter delivered us Milton Doyle, a freshman who came into the Valley and put up 15 pts., 4 rebounds, 3.5 assists per game. We don’t get Doyle for the 2013-2014 season (our inaugural MVC season) and 10-22 probably becomes 3-29 in our first year in the conference. Good luck recruiting in the Valley if that happens. Doyle leads us to a conference tournament win, and that’s where things start to take off.

Doyle was a Kansas recruit who could have went ANYWHERE. He could have gone to Northwestern or DePaul (who at the time where both better than us by far). He could have even went to UIC and dominated the Horizon League, which may have been more enticing to him if he wanted to come back to Chicago, rather than play at the worst Missouri Valley school for a 3rd year head coach with a losing record (maybe Porter doesn’t make it 5 years..). Bottom line – Porter Moser had a hard sell to Doyle (losing record, Horizon League talent to play around him, bottom of the mid-major conference team, etc.) and yet he still was able to get him to come to Loyola.

Brutally Honest – If Porter Moser doesn’t get us Milton Doyle, about 1/6 of this message board isn’t even here because we weren’t getting any new fans with 2-16 MVC records. We would have sunk so hard in the MVC without Doyle – many of you probably wouldn’t be on this messageboard anymore.

5) Porter Moser’s MVC success is Undeniable

Under Moser, we’ve won the MVC regular season conference title 2 out of 6 years. Since we’ve been in the league, we’ve one it 1/3 of the time. Since Porter has gotten 4 years to recruit all of his own players as the head coach of Loyola, we’ve won the conference title 2 out of the last 4 years.

In Year 7 in the conference – we are in the top 3, and have an outside chance of winning another title.

Brutally Honest – Our MVC success in 6 years with Moser is better than we could have hoped for since being accepted into the conference. Nobody was going to win us 3 league titles in our first six MVC years. Porter has overachieved in the Valley.

6) Porter Moser Took Us to a Final Four When We Had No Business Being in the Tournament

The original post in this thread talked about “blown leads” in the NCAA Tournament. Really? Stating that we “blew leads” in any of the 5 games we played in is disingenuous, as it completely ignores the fact that we BUILT LEADS against teams with far superior talent. Loyola was not even picked to finish in the top 3 in the MVC that year. That team was not a team of stacked athletes. Those kids have become legends and beloved to us fans (Custer, Townes, Ingram), but in reality – none of them were top-tier talent. If they were – they wouldn’t have been at Loyola… a school that hadn’t been to the tournament tin 30+ years.

If you want brutal honesty – Missouri State was more talented than us; Northern Iowa was more talented than us; Illinois State was more talented than us; Florida was more talented than us; Miami was more talented than us; Tennessee was more talented than us; Nevada was more talented than us; Kansas State was more talented than us; Michigan was more talented than us. We didn’t blow leads – We were able to get a leads because of Porter’s coaching and preparation – then hang on to win games we had no business winning, based on talent. Bottom line – Porter had us within 10 minutes of going to the NATIONAL CHAMPSIONSHIP.

Brutally Honest – Porter out-coached his opponents and took less talented players and made them reach their full potential in 2018.

7) Porter Moser Could have Left for a Paycheck at a Higher Profile Program and Despite that, He Chose Loyola

This is just fact. Saint John’s is in a better conference, has more fan support, is in the largest city in the county, plays in a historic venue, and pays vastly more than Loyola. He could have taken the money and ran – he chose not to.

Brutally Honest – Porter Moser is more loyal to Loyola than even our fans and alumni.

8) If Porter Left Last Year – Loyola’s Momentum and Elevated Status Would Have Been Erased Immediately

If you think Loyola was going to survive and thrive if Porter Moser left at the end of last year, you are crazy.

First, who were you going to get? The best possible candidate to replace Porter to ensure things went well and the success was sustained would have been Mullins – and Mullins was already gone to SIU. After that – Anyone else is a complete blow-up of our system.

What would have definitely happened – We would have lost Marquis Kennedy. With Porter gone and Mullins gone, Kennedy had options. He could have followed Porter to Saint Johns or he could have followed Mullins to SIU. He would have had no allegiance to stay and play for any other coach and their staff. Kennedy is the future of our program for the next three years and he’s going to be an intricate part of keeping us at the top of the Valley. He’s been instrumental in our success this year. If you think he was going to still come, you must know something more than me, because common sense says there’s no reason for him to step foot on campus to embark on a total rebuild.

What most likely would have happened – Tate Hall already sat out his year…. Porter’s gone. Mullins is gone. He doesn’t know the new coach… Why not go to SIU with Mullins? Why not go anywhere else?

What could have happened – Cooper Kaifus. He gets injured before the season starts. He has to sit out a year. Why stick around when the people who brought you there bolted? You proved your freshman year that you have the shooting ability to help any team in the country, where 40 percent three-point shooters are highly sought after. He’s probably gone.
What could have happened - Krutwig could have sat a year and followed Porter to Saint Johns, followed Mullins to SIU, or went to another major program. It seems like Krutwig has been with us forever – but he was only 2 years into his four-year career at the end of last year. With everyone from the original coaching staff that brought him gone – a final four and 2 conference championships under his belt – what more would he want to do at Loyola by himself? I think it was a real possibility that he could have opted to take his talents elsewhere.

Brutally Honest – If Porter leaves, we are most likely playing on Thursday night in the MVC tournament this year, and we’re certainly not set up to win the league next year.

9) Despite Disappointments, This Season Is a Success

Everyone knew that this was a “rebuilding year,” and if you didn’t, you were delusional and clouded by our recent success. 7 newcomers. Best three-point shooter out for the season. The loss of 2 MVC players of the year. One senior on the team.

We are going to finish this season with a winning record. We have a realistic shot of having another 20-win season. We are more than half-way through the conference schedule and we’re sitting in 3rd place.

You can criticize Porter for getting blown out by Furman and Indiana State – A solid program shouldn’t get blown out by ANYONE. I completely agree with individual game criticism. When we lose by 20+ I would agree that those individual games have issues of coaching and preparedness. BUT, every other game besides those two were not bad games – I would even argue that the Coppin State game was an issue of trying to bring a young, inexperienced team together, and I don’t put that loss squarely on him.

The truth of the matter is – this team is over-performing, overall, this season. It’s not Moser’s fault that Kaifus had a season-ending injury before the season even got started. I think everyone knows that if Porter had Cooper in addition to what we have now, this team is sitting at about 4 to 6 losses at this point in the season, and we’re probably leading the conference again.

Brutally Honest – Porter’s done an overall good job this year given the circumstances, with only two or three bad games out of twenty-four.

So Toledo...how do you REALLY FEEL? all good points....but I do not want to lose Sister Jean,,,,we all have thought with our emotions after a beat down like the Sycamores gave us......and what the heck ...a fan board is kinda like a petri dish for arm chair coaches........I too believe we are lcuky to have Coach Moser.....but ok to point out what we think mistakes are...even if we are wrong...

Holy Toledo!

Agreed. I don’t have a problem with the post or thread at all. But there needs to be perspective on where we are at. We don’t want to sink back into mediocrity like we did after 1985, but I think the NIT bid last year was a good follow-up. At this point - criticism is warranted; pessimism is not. The team we have this year is fully capable of winning out and going back to the tournament. I’m still excited for Porter, the players and the program.