Ramblermania.net :: View topic - Arch Madness maybe no more?

Saw this press release earlier. It sure seems like the Men's Basketball Tournament is going to be on the move. http://www.mvc-sports.com/mbasketball/n ... ign=buffer

Our beat writer seems convinced it's staying in STL. If it moves, I'd guess Chicago as it would make sense as a way to piss of WSU fans. We're used to being pissed at the league for one thing or another.

SubGod22 wrote:

I don't think Chicago would be an option because of the Big 10+ tournament and it being on the edge of the MVC footprint.

Because I live in Normal, I was well aware of the potential Chicago hatred element that might be a part of our entry into the conference when we were under consideration. I had no idea how bad it would be from Wichita, though.

I guess a lot of it is political-- especially the spectre of big city urban Democrats pushing around more conservative folks from smaller cities, towns and rural areas. A generation ago, most people in MVC markets would relish the opportunity to visit Chicago. Today, hatred of cities like Chicago is a political symbol and litmus test for rural and conservative authenticity. It's really too bad, because if urban Democrats and rural Republicans must profess a hatred for fellow Americans and where they live as a basic form of political expression, we're on a terrible path. I imagined SubGod22 as being above that murmuring subtext, but I see its very powerful appeal.

I guess the only appeal I could make given the circumstances is: "give it a try before you condemn." You don't have to love Chicago and an urban lifestyle to find some good things in it, or to recognize a certain practicality to living in Chicago and taking advantage of the assets it boasts. The same goes for snooty Chicagoans who reject the sight of corn, soy, or wheat fields as a frivilous waste of their incredibly valuable time-- get in the spirit, jerks!

I hope the tournament stays in St. Louis. The best way to keep it there is for the entire conference to work its way up to parity with WSU.

Well, a couple of things jump out--
--StL has been a great venue
--WSU will not ALWAYS be on top--Sorry Sub. When they are down somewhat , will the Fans follow the team in the vast numbers that they now do.
--Creighton ?? Same story only worse and sooner
--A series of venues might work--but it certainly did not in the Horizon Mess. But then who would wish to see most of those teams??

--Big vs small cities do not enter into the equation--Team constant wins do.
--At present Chicago has too much of a Big 80 or how many and Notre Dame complex--Size and Politics has little if anything to do with it.
--------BTW, look at a map--truly only WSU would be hurt a tad by a tourney move to Chgo

To me only St L, KC and Chgo would work--all have warts --If it rotated I think unless Billikens would come aboard, the Gateway City would fade as a venue , leaving KC and Chgo maybe alternating--and I for one do not like this.

-- Campus venues ???

STL is best.

Author:	Bo Rambler [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:11 am ]
Post subject:	Arch Madness maybe no more?
Saw this press release earlier. It sure seems like the Men's Basketball Tournament is going to be on the move. http://www.mvc-sports.com/mbasketball/n ... ign=buffer

Author:	SubGod22 [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Arch Madness maybe no more?
Our beat writer seems convinced it's staying in STL. If it moves, I'd guess Chicago as it would make sense as a way to piss of WSU fans. We're used to being pissed at the league for one thing or another.

Author:	Mike Angelitis05 [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Arch Madness maybe no more?
I believe it should stay in St. Louis. Chicago has too many other things going on too capture the city's attention. Maybe what would make the announcement " Historic" is that The Valley signs the longest agreement to date to have the tournament in St. Louis. I don't know much about the Women's Tournament in suburban St. Louis but I wonder if Loyola's Gentile Arena would'nt be a site to consider; small, intimate, and in a bigger media market.

Author:	brot4britu [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Arch Madness maybe no more?
Well, I would take a more positive reaction to this blog--My ghuess and only a guess would be a long term extension to a successful affair--This patient is NOT sick, why call a Doctor ?? Stay in St Louis--

Author:	Rambler63 [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Arch Madness maybe no more?
Bo Rambler wrote: Saw this press release earlier. It sure seems like the Men's Basketball Tournament is going to be on the move. http://www.mvc-sports.com/mbasketball/n ... ign=buffer I'm thinking negotiation tactic.

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Author:	Rambler63 [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Arch Madness maybe no more?
SubGod22 wrote: Our beat writer seems convinced it's staying in STL. If it moves, I'd guess Chicago as it would make sense as a way to piss of WSU fans. We're used to being pissed at the league for one thing or another. I don't think Chicago would be an option because of the Big 10+ tournament and it being on the edge of the MVC footprint. Because I live in Normal, I was well aware of the potential Chicago hatred element that might be a part of our entry into the conference when we were under consideration. I had no idea how bad it would be from Wichita, though. I guess a lot of it is political-- especially the spectre of big city urban Democrats pushing around more conservative folks from smaller cities, towns and rural areas. A generation ago, most people in MVC markets would relish the opportunity to visit Chicago. Today, hatred of cities like Chicago is a political symbol and litmus test for rural and conservative authenticity. It's really too bad, because if urban Democrats and rural Republicans must profess a hatred for fellow Americans and where they live as a basic form of political expression, we're on a terrible path. I imagined SubGod22 as being above that murmuring subtext, but I see its very powerful appeal. I guess the only appeal I could make given the circumstances is: "give it a try before you condemn." You don't have to love Chicago and an urban lifestyle to find some good things in it, or to recognize a certain practicality to living in Chicago and taking advantage of the assets it boasts. The same goes for snooty Chicagoans who reject the sight of corn, soy, or wheat fields as a frivilous waste of their incredibly valuable time-- get in the spirit, jerks! I hope the tournament stays in St. Louis. The best way to keep it there is for the entire conference to work its way up to parity with WSU.

Author:	SubGod22 [ Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:38 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Arch Madness maybe no more?
Rambler63 wrote: SubGod22 wrote: Our beat writer seems convinced it's staying in STL. If it moves, I'd guess Chicago as it would make sense as a way to piss of WSU fans. We're used to being pissed at the league for one thing or another. I don't think Chicago would be an option because of the Big 10+ tournament and it being on the edge of the MVC footprint. Because I live in Normal, I was well aware of the potential Chicago hatred element that might be a part of our entry into the conference when we were under consideration. I had no idea how bad it would be from Wichita, though. I guess a lot of it is political-- especially the spectre of big city urban Democrats pushing around more conservative folks from smaller cities, towns and rural areas. A generation ago, most people in MVC markets would relish the opportunity to visit Chicago. Today, hatred of cities like Chicago is a political symbol and litmus test for rural and conservative authenticity. It's really too bad, because if urban Democrats and rural Republicans must profess a hatred for fellow Americans and where they live as a basic form of political expression, we're on a terrible path. I imagined SubGod22 as being above that murmuring subtext, but I see its very powerful appeal. I guess the only appeal I could make given the circumstances is: "give it a try before you condemn." You don't have to love Chicago and an urban lifestyle to find some good things in it, or to recognize a certain practicality to living in Chicago and taking advantage of the assets it boasts. The same goes for snooty Chicagoans who reject the sight of corn, soy, or wheat fields as a frivilous waste of their incredibly valuable time-- get in the spirit, jerks! I hope the tournament stays in St. Louis. The best way to keep it there is for the entire conference to work its way up to parity with WSU. I don't think people hate Chicago as a whole just because it's a big city. And corrupt I think people felt that you were only added because you were in Chicago and looking at the recent production immediately became hostile because we lost one of the better schools and they saw you coming in as one of the worst. The reason a move to Chicago won't go over well in Wichita has nothing to do with politics or big city and everything to do with the fact that we already have the farthest travel every year and Chicago will only make it farther. Right or wrong, a lot of fans in Wichita have felt that the Valley has made some poor decisions over the years that have had a negative impact on us. So a move a few hours farther away isn't going to sit well with a lot of people. Keeping it in STL will be tolerable, eventhough a lot of people feel that we're a complete afterthought in the city and the fact that the area around Scottrade or whatever it's called this year sucks. I would honestly never go to STL if it weren't for the the MVC tournament, but I also decided a few years ago that I may not go anyway. I simply don't enjoy the city. Maybe I'd enjoy Chicago, but I'm not spending the money on a flight and don't really want to sit in a car that long to get there. Personally, my favorite option for a "historic" announcement is that it moves to KC. Not only because it's closer to Wichita, but because it's a great college basketball city and the area around Sprint Center has a lot going on and would create a great fan experience. I really doubt that happens so my next favorite option would be a rotation that involved KC. KC/STL or KC/STL/CHI. That would definitely get me to go at least every 2 or 3 years. With Creigton gone, the only way attendence in STL will be REALLY good is if Bradley or SIU get really good. And even then, their fans don't show up until Saturday or Sunday. Downside to Chicago is fewer WSU fans probably make it out but it may increase some of the Illinois schools a little bit. I don't think it would have a significant impact based on the history of not showing up unless they felt they had a chance to win it. Downside to KC is WSU would fill at least half the arena. Based on school ticket sales, I don't think it would have a significant negative impact anywhere else as most schools only buy the minimum anyway. I could see MSU and Drake/UNI increasing their attendence though. But I'd still say the better odds are in staying in STL with a longer deal than usual or moving to Chicago. We'll find out a little after lunch.

Author:	SubGod22 [ Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Arch Madness maybe no more?
I'd also add that if I ever get a job that allows for better pay and the opportunity to make a trip to Chicago, I would love to watch a Shocker game at Gentile. Again, the knock on Chicago, from the perspective of Wichita fans, is simply the extra distance and money. And I'm not sure it would actually help attendance as a whole unless the Chicago area alumni of the Illnois schools really get behind it. The more I think about it, I think the MVC will rotate between 2 or 3 cities. I doubt they completely abandon STL but I do think a change in scenery will help as a whole.

Author:	brot4britu [ Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Arch Madness maybe no more?
Well, a couple of things jump out-- --StL has been a great venue --WSU will not ALWAYS be on top--Sorry Sub. When they are down somewhat , will the Fans follow the team in the vast numbers that they now do. --Creighton ?? Same story only worse and sooner --A series of venues might work--but it certainly did not in the Horizon Mess. But then who would wish to see most of those teams?? --Big vs small cities do not enter into the equation--Team constant wins do. --At present Chicago has too much of a Big 80 or how many and Notre Dame complex--Size and Politics has little if anything to do with it. --------BTW, look at a map--truly only WSU would be hurt a tad by a tourney move to Chgo To me only St L, KC and Chgo would work--all have warts --If it rotated I think unless Billikens would come aboard, the Gateway City would fade as a venue , leaving KC and Chgo maybe alternating--and I for one do not like this. -- Campus venues ??? STL is best.

Author:	SubGod22 [ Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Arch Madness maybe no more?
brot4britu wrote: Well, a couple of things jump out-- --StL has been a great venue --WSU will not ALWAYS be on top--Sorry Sub. When they are down somewhat , will the Fans follow the team in the vast numbers that they now do. --Creighton ?? Same story only worse and sooner --A series of venues might work--but it certainly did not in the Horizon Mess. But then who would wish to see most of those teams?? --Big vs small cities do not enter into the equation--Team constant wins do. --At present Chicago has too much of a Big 80 or how many and Notre Dame complex--Size and Politics has little if anything to do with it. --------BTW, look at a map--truly only WSU would be hurt a tad by a tourney move to Chgo To me only St L, KC and Chgo would work--all have warts --If it rotated I think unless Billikens would come aboard, the Gateway City would fade as a venue , leaving KC and Chgo maybe alternating--and I for one do not like this. -- Campus venues ??? STL is best. Even in down years, WSU fans travel. I remember going to STL as a 9 seed and having 3 or 4 thousand there. Heck, even during our decade of darkness (the 90s) we averaged over 6k for home games. And those were some pretty bad years. So yes, even if we're not the top seed, we'll still travel quite well. Wichita State is basketball. Would we draw the 8k that was reported this year? Of course not. But we'll still be one of the better ones in attendance. And I don't care who is in the rotation as long as KC is one of them. I really don't see Indy or Vegas happening either. Why move to Indy when those schools don't even show up in STL? I'd be shocked if they don't put CHI in the rotation, if in fact that's what will happen. I do think everyone would enjoy KC if they went. The Power & Light district across from the Sprint Center is supposed to be quite a lively area. On another note, I feel pretty confident that we'll be pretty damn good for awhile. Not 18-0 dominant or 35-1 dominant, but we're going to be a player on the national level for as long as 3G is here. And that could be quite some time.

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