Sub, on another thread sys folks are saying we look like a 9th or even 10th place team !! This might mean
--Others have better holdovers--Maybe but not seven of nine
--Others have better recruits---same as above
--Sub and others feel PM is not " up to snuff" as a Coach---We shall see
-------My take on "Others" is that those "Others" part of the rest of the League really are hoping and not knowing--They have some natural suspicion of "the new kid on the block"

My own prejudiced take is that we surprize many of those "others" with a fifth or better finish---If not well then PM will have not coached well enough. Our recruits and returnees are good enough to upset the doubters.

GO RAMBLERS !!

A teaser for the WGCITHOWC----Who wins the ACC title ?? 5 pts
Who finishes LAST in BIG EAST ?? 3 pts

I don't think Sub is saying we'll finish 9th or 10th. I'd imagine he is simply quoting others in Shocker nation (or those on that other message board) who may still hold a grudge that we were invited to the league.

Still, there is an underlying theme that we need to address...if we want respect from these groups, we'd better put up or shut up. So far, we have played like the joke they think we are. The only way they will take us seriously is if we start beating them and represent the MVC in a positive manner.

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Cigarboy sucks!

No--Go I did not say Sub said we finish in bottom two--I would not subscribe such things to him--He WAS merely reporting on Others.

Now then You are so right on what you say about our performance to date-----In my opinion --completely correct---No question--

I guess I should ckeck theother Boards ---but I am curious as to which group it is that did not want us to come aboard---I can guess , but I do not really want to search nine other Boards--A hint maybe ?? Thanks

Let's be realistic, Brot. We lost the entire frontcourt to defections. Whether you think they were up to snuff athletically or not, they still had a lot of experience (and height) that will not be replaced by the newcomers. The tallest guy on the roster who will see any significant time this year is Jones at 6'9"; the next tallest is James at 6'7". Neither of them has a single minute of playing time at the D-1 level. What's more, Jones weighs in at a rail-thin 200. We will have no options to throw fouls and big bodies at other teams like we could with Johnson, King, and Osborne.

We'll probably be a lot more athletic: faster, higher jumping, much quicker with the ball-- but that's often a recipe for turnovers, travelling calls, missed passes, silly fouls, etc. from young players. Christian Thomas is still going to be playing the 4, but not likely to improve much as he's undersized and playing out of position. We'll still have non-scorers/shooters like Crisman and Dokubo getting a lot of minutes. It will be hard to expect Doyle to improve significantly over his great freshman season, but hopefully he'll be more consistent and a little smarter in crucial situations.

Meanwhile, I think the bottom half of the league is likely to be much stronger this year. And we did finish 10th last year, so I don't see how expecting only six returning players to make up an increasing gap is a realistic possibility.

Of course 63--I am hoping--BUT we also have Rajala at 6' 9" That does help---Now then we are tall enough and maybe physical as well with these guys--BUT if PM uses them as he has used--or not used --our biggies in the past, well then we may be in trouble. BUT I do see Thomas and Doyle with Turk running our opposition and running them hard. I think that PM is the question mark---Everybody or most everybody says he is a fine recruiter---Well then , let's see it on the court.

I'm not sure where to slot you guys exactly as I haven't done my research yet on what everyone has coming back. I know I pick WSU 1 and UNI 2. Outside of that I'm not 100%. As was mentioned above, the loss of the entire frontcourt definitely makes people knock you down the board a bit. Outside of Doyle and Thomas I think there are a lot of questions from those outside the program looking in. That many defections tends to make people think you'll struggle a bit. I have no doubt that the guys replacing them may be more athletic and better players eventually, but it's hard to rely on guys with no college experience. That effects outsiders perspectives.

I think most MVC fans will say that Doyle is one of the best talents in the conference and that Thomas goes above and beyond what you'd expect from him. Two very good talents. Still a lot of unknowns. Then Moser was brought up and you have to remember that he has a history in the MVC and it's not a strong one. Many felt that his ISU teams underachieved. He's one heck of a recruiter but from what I've read here and elsewhere it sounds like he's also a micromanager and I think that does more harm than good. I hope he's learned from past mistakes and can adapt to what he has and what he's facing, but I and many others have doubts.

As far as people being bitter or whatever from not wanting you in the conference, I'm sure that plays some role with some posters. I think most of the IL schools favored your addition. I know a lot of WSU fans were qutie frankly pissed by it. But you have to understand that we lost our biggest conference Rival and a Top 25 type of team and replaced them with a school that hadn't done much in recent memory and had just finished at or near the bottom of the Horizon. Most fans only go that far in evaluation and based on that I think you can understand where some of the hostility came from. I wasn't a fan of the news at first until I did some digging and could see the potential you have. Most fans would have preferred a school with more recent success but few if any had the financial potential of you guys. And if you start winning and turn things around I think your program can take off.

I skim most of the conference boards and it seems like many have you guys and Drake as 9 and 10 in either order. Some have put Bradley in that conversation and see you three as 8-10. Is finishing 8th enough to save Moser from a new AD? I'd doubt it, but I also wasn't aware that buying out his contract could be an issue but that's discussed in the other thread.

I still haven't done my research, but trying to be objective from what I can pull from memory, I'd go with a preseason prediction of

Wichita
UNI
Missouri State
Illinois State
SIU
Bradley
Evansville
Loyola
Indiana State
Drake

Evansville has more talent than that but I think Marty holds them back. I know I'm higher on Bradley than most. There's a lot of talent there and I think losing Lemon is a plus for them and it'll show. But I also wouldn't be opposed to dropping Bradley to 8th and moving you guys and Evansville each up a spot. I'll do more research into who has what back and who brought in what talent later and have a better idea. If your new post players can come in and play, and Moser lets them, I think you can avoid Thursday, but off the top of my head I'm not sure that's in the cards right now in the preseason.

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The Roundhouse

As of right now, I'm here:

Wichita State
UNI
Missouri State
Indiana State
Evansville
Illinois State
SIU
Bradley
Drake
Loyola

I would have WSU-UNI-MSU in the top tier, ISUb-Evansville-ISUr in the middle tier, and SIU-Bradley-Drake-Loyola battling it out for the Thursday spots. Loyola hasn't won a true road game since January 23, 2013, and having only six returning scholarship players (counting Dokubo) from last year isn't going to help much in breaking that streak. I think Loyola has the potential to win at home against Drake, Bradley, SIU, ISU, and Indiana State, but even if the Ramblers manage to sweep those games, steal a home win against another team, and get lucky in one game on the road, that's 7-11 in conference-- probably only good enough for 7th.

I have no idea where we will finish but I don't think we will win the conference tournament or get an at large bid to the NCAA tournament.
I'm more interested to see if Doyle improves from last year.

I like your prediction. Most MVC fans have ISU-b falling way off but with Kitchell, Gant, and Smith (G/F) as I dont see it. As you guys know Smith was our 6th "starter" and he will be the go to guy. Also the offense will be ran through Gant. Gant just needs consistency. Here's actually an article that is spot on about the sycamores if you havent read it yet. http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/9412