Sub wishes to use '30 years" as the proper time frame for WSU--Fair enough, but they have been great even over a longer period than that--but fair enough ! By that token we must use 30 years for the Dakotas-- Until recently , all have had little to say HOOPS -WISE. Believe me, I was there--Great Hockey in Grand Forks--Great FOOTBALL in Fargo--So Dak--NOT SO MUCH as I have stated.

SLU would be great for Valley of course--They would NOW have a sister school in LUC. Less travel cost--They could be tempted now, I think. Get Valpo and one other Ark LR or ORU or ??? But the Valley bosses rule and will do something when WSU leaves. ONE thing WSU must keep in mind--Be careful what you wish for--See BUTLER DEPEWL and CREIGHTON !!!

The Dakotas might be a low-priced stock. They have come quite a bit up in the past several years. The Summit League was actually ranked #12 in Conference RPI last year (the MVC was #13) in large part because South Dakota State was #39 and North Dakota State was a respectable #133. Both those numbers are on the high arc of where they've been over the past 5 years. Their attendance is pretty good and their crowds very rowdy, because there's nothing else to do in the Dakotas that time of year. Their state funding is pretty solid because of oil money infusions, and their enrollment is just a hair below Loyola in the 11,000 to 14,000 range. The population of the states have stopped dropping because of oil jobs.

Their football is in the Missouri Valley Football Conference (FCS), and they do well-- possibly to the point where it might begin to be a problem in a basketball conference (think Youngstown State from the HL, and Missouri State's ambitious talk about emphasizing football). And I would really hate the prospect of having to travel to Brookings, SD and Fargo, ND in December-January-February.

I don't wish to use 30 years. I was just proving a point. You can pick any time frame that suits your agenda and his basically failed. We had a couple of rebuilding years after Turgeon left the roster devoid of talent. The comparison to Bradley is laughable at best. Although they do have much more potential than most MVC schools considering the fan based and history. From about 1989-2000 things were as bad as they've ever been at WSU. Like I said, we had a president that didn't care about athletics and an AD that was an idiot. And during the dark ages we still averaged in most years more than the your gym holds. The fans and support were there should someone light a fire in the department and that was AD Jim Schaus.

But you guys can try and talk down Wichita all you want. It's not going to matter. We aren't falling off any cliffs anytime soon and when Marshall leaves or retires we won't suffer through a bad hire like we did in the past. The money and support is in place to continue being a damn good program.

Most people saw the struggles coming for Creighton considering they'd never done anything in the tournament. But I don't think they regret leaving as they're in a much better conference that makes them much more money and gets them multiple games against teams that the average fans know about. They're in a conference that they don't have to win to get to the tournament. That's what Wichita is looking for. A conference that can strengthen our resume instead of harm it. A conference that we don't absolutely have to win to get in. I conference that will give us more competitive games on a consistent basis. I conference that will give us more national exposure. I conference that will help us land even better recruits than we're getting now. What's not to like about those possibilities? These are all things that can also help grow the school and increase donations to both academics and athletics. You guys jumped from the Horizon to the MVC. Props for pulling that off. We're hoping to do the same sort of thing. Time will tell if it happens.

_________________
The Roundhouse

Loyola was a co-founder of what became the Horizon League, so it wasn't like we were just conference hopping for thrills. In 1989-90, the league was Xavier, Dayton, St. Louis, Marquette, Evansville, Loyola, Detroit, and Butler-- and that was the order of finish in the league that year, with Butler last. That's a pretty solid league.

Four years later, the Great Midwest/CUSA had picked off St. Louis and Marquette and Dayton left for the A10-- resulting in the league losing its auto bid. That's when the league had to infuse itself with hypenated public schools new to Division 1. Yet Butler, Detroit, and Loyola hung in there for 20+ years. The Great Midwest/CUSA added the Louisvilles, Cinicinnatis, and UABs, and football doomed them. Now they're a mediocre football conference and a really, really bad basketball conference.

Wait a tad Sub !! I have NOT slammed WSU--In fact I believe I wrote that they have been good for YEARS !! I have a ton of respect for WSU--who was it that beat us in 1963 ??)

I do believe however in moving on--Shockers want to do just that so--WE MOVE ON ! Our League will no doubt surprise us. They probably are ready to move with all plans made to publish when WSU leaves. One thing though the MW is NOT the Big East !!

If DePEWL and Creighton went to Big East just for money and schedule--Well, they have it but no titles and they will not have any in the immediate future--

Butler ?? Already they are slippimg--Sad !! really SAD !! NOT !!

No doubt the Valley is a better conference than the Horizon but one has to wonder........Spring sports shows us dead last in softball,mens and women's track, men's golf with our only not dead last finish being 6th out of 9 in women's golf on our home course. What are we to make of this?

I think it's unfair to use both track and field teams. Both were Horizon League Champions before joining the Valley, but have not been able to do well in the standings. The reason isn't so much that they are bad, but that we don't have the resources to get a good field team. In the Horizon, we could rely on good running and average field events to get some points because the other schools, like us, didn't have good field athletes. In the Valley, these teams destroy us in the field events, and this year we didn't have as good of a running team to compete.

For this to change we really need a place for the throwers and jumpers to practice. I know that our pole vaulter had to stop and become a sprinter because he had to go to UIC everyday to practice vaulting. Some of the throwers are practicing in less than ideal places as well. We don't have all the equipment or space we need to get and develop the field athletes.

Similarly, the runners can't run much when the weather is terrible. They are forced to run around Gentile so they can't get good or full workouts in. The Valley schools have the resources and space that we don't, so we will continue to be near the bottom of the track and field results. Without the facilities, it's hard to get the athletes, and maximize the talent we have.

Ramblertank22 ... totally agree with you but I guess that is the poin,t is the University all in ?.....do they understand what it will take to compete in the Valley and are they willing to put up or minimally set goals and organize the alums to get what the athletic teams need to compete?. You forgot the jumpers often have practiced on the beach at LU. Love the track team and they have done some great things in the last couple of years.

Wasn't the softball team in the MVC championship game a couple years ago?

2014. They were only two outs away from winning the title, I believe. Immediately after the season, the coach was hired away as an assistant at Wisconsin.